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 Dalmat! Is it him?!

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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sat May 08, 2010 10:59 pm

Sorry, but what does range mean? How far you run without losing all your battery?
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sat May 08, 2010 11:05 pm

To clarify, range means how far your weapons can go. A bot with good range would be able to buy razor discs or other weapons that shoot all the way across the arena. A bot with poor range would have flamethrowers and rolling pins.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 3:30 am

hmm.. not bad but how about we have classes yes, but only like 3 and something completely different, while the stats you just said (speed, damage,range) would be like stats, available to all classes, to which the players could bet points as the bot level increases, rpg style. maybe the classes would define different starting stats as well, like some class would start with higher range etc. also, dunno about the range, it could be more like the range of ranged weapons, while the fact that it could carry or not such weapons would be class based. as examples of classes, i was thinking for example a bulky one, powerful armor and all, but slow and whatever. while a more ranged centric class would be faster and nimble. still, i wanted that even if someone chose a ranged class, he would have the choice of making it more powerful for close combat, hence the separation between classes and stats. please advise and thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 5:45 pm

In Platform Racing you start out with 100 stat points to spread between speed, jumping, and acceleration. As you play more you get more stat points. Maybe you want something like that?

Here are a few things that I think would fit well together.

You start out with, say, 20 stat points. You can spread these around speed, armor, and damage. You can remove and add them any time, as long as the total is 20.

When you win a game you get experience and cash, but less for losing a game. When enough experience accumulates you gain a level. When you gain a level you get a stat point. You will have a level and a skill rank, and skill rank will determine your spot on the highscores. When you win you gain skill points, and winning enough makes you go up a skill rank (like in RR; -, +, ++). Losing lowers your skill points but not your level.

With enough cash you can buy stronger chassis/armor plates, engines, wheels, and weapons. Armor plates might boost your armor by, say, 1.2 or 1.8, depending on how expensive it is. Engines would be the same, but for speed instead. For wheels, it could say "Turning:High, Grip:Medium" or something like that. Weapons could say "Damage:Low, Range:High". In this case it would multiply the damage stat by something low, like 1.3, but the range would be far.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 6:03 pm

And add to all this that when in battle robots could lose parts...




btw Guest ik what u did...
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 10:07 pm

hmm... is it really imperative to you that the stats can be distributed? in my opinion that takes something out of the game, since i wanted each robot to be unique and that people would have fun making bots, different bots, testing strategies etc. still, i value your opinion above mine
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 11:21 pm

Right now we're just thinking up different ideas. It's good to ask questions, as that generates ideas and gives you more options. The class differences depends on one factor: cash items.

If there are classes that are significantly different, I think the majority of the money should come from cash weapons, like the superpacks in RR. The ideal gamer will pick a class, rise through the ranks, maybe to the penultimate level (3+ or 4+ in RR). When he starts losing he will buy cash weapons and reach a very high rank. However, he simply won't be skilled enough to go higher or reach the highscores. This is when he tries another class and loads it with cash items. Thus we get 2 purchases from 1 player.

However, I see three main problems with cash items. It's not easy to program into the game, its possible to hack free items, and some people think its frivolous to spend money for an online game when they can play PS3 or XBL.

If there are no cash items, there's no reason you would want someone to create a new account. They will play more accounts, but each bot will be played less. In the end they will type in the link to the site the same amount of times, and click on the ads the same amount of times. But not really, because with distribution players are less likely to give up when they don't like their class. So Cash Items = Different Classes. Ad Revenue = Distribution.

Keep questioning my ideas, it generates more ideas. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 09, 2010 11:52 pm

hmm.. first of all, i hadn't even started to think about that stuff. also there will be no need for multiple accounts, each account will be able to have as many bots as the player wants (ok, maybe some limit on this, but certainly enough). so the money is global and the player will have the option to sell everything he buys (for far less of course). i still don't know how the money will be earned or at what rate, but it shouldn't give players to much money, even because certain weapons will only be usable upon reaching certain levels, and higher level weapons will be much more expensive than the lower ones. as for cash weapons, i have absolutely no idea. just a remark on hacking them.. it won't be possible. don't forget who i am Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 10, 2010 4:23 am

I've always wondered, how are hacking programs prevented?

And also, how do you plan to make it multiplayer?


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 10, 2010 6:11 pm

simple, hacking is pretty much always based on a failure of the coder. i know enough of the subject to not make those mistakes. well depends on how expensive servers with good bandwidth are... hopefully, if i can get one, there will be no problems connecting (like the wall/fence problem) and possibly up to 8 or even more players will be able to fight together. if i don't get a server, it will be 1 on 1 with basically the same problems of rr, thanks to ppl who still can't use their router properly Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 10, 2010 9:57 pm

It would be great to have a game that cant be hacked. I just fear that is impossible though Sad
I would love to see a new robot type game !
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 10, 2010 10:36 pm

Dalmat wrote:
thanks to ppl who still can't use their router properly Razz
Do you mean to say that you can be fence with router, tell more about it, I have a modem and I am fence, but if there is a way how router could be fence I could tell other guys how to make it. Oh, I've never had a router so don't know about it.
Good luck with your game, hope you are going to make it, because you seem to know something.




btw Guest ik what u did...
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 10, 2010 11:13 pm

just open the port that rr uses(dont know which one is right now) or if you are lazy turn on DMZ
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Tue May 11, 2010 12:47 am

The port right now is 1626, but when u open it, it doesn't helps to all. Haven't heard of DMZ before, how does it work?




btw Guest ik what u did...
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Tue May 11, 2010 1:18 am

basically routes all incoming connections to one lan ip address. basically, it opens all ports
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Tue May 11, 2010 3:49 am

Does this make you fence, or the legendary fence/wall starting position; you see or play everyone? If this is so, do you think that, when you download the new robot game, a special program could start? One that automatically opens up the port by going into your system and changing it.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 16, 2010 4:53 am

Back on track; thinking up some more ideas if you want them and for fun. This post is about a ranking system, as I haven't touched on that yet.

The way I see it there are 3 general options for a ranking system.

1.) RR-Style: 3-8 classes (depending on how popular the game is; the less popular the fewer classes). You can only change your ranking by playing someone in your class. Just imagine the RR ranking system (-, +, ++, ect) except you can lose points for losing to someone with more points than you and there is less of a penalty for losing to players far below you in ranking.

2.) Random Matchup: This is my personal favorite, but all 3 are viable. In this system you click "Find Match" or something, and wait until someone else around your skill level clicks "Find Match". You could be assigned a skill rank out of 25 or something, and the system might only pair you with someone within 5 ranks of you. You will win more points playing someone ranked above you than someone at your rank. As you win more points your rank goes up.

3.) Table Creation: Everyone has a ranking from 0 to, maybe, 4000. They are organized into classes. Then anyone can create a table and specify arena, time limit before ties, password or no password, and most importantly, what ranks can join. So you could select a box for "Beginners, Novices, and Average", but not select the box for "Experts and Elites". So the only people that could join your game would be people of the lower ranks. You could also have a password for tournaments and stuff.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 16, 2010 7:20 am

weird, i was thinking of implementing all of those at the same time. seriously, 2 and 3 are exactly how i had imagined them. the way you loose or win points is going to be difficult though... still didn't have the time to grab a pen and paper and make a mind simulation Razz so basically, i was thinking you could just click the bot and ask, have a button to find players you want, including a lot of details like skill rank, supers or no supers etc. and rooms that you can make although i still don't know a good way to do it because it is subject to abuse and over usage. but we'll see. try to concentrate on a point system then. maybe percentages?
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 16, 2010 7:52 am

I'll think up something. I would like if the scoring system made it difficult to raise. Back in 04-07, surely you remember this, some people got to the highscores by using two 5+: their main bot and one to purposely lose to the main bot. A rating system can fix this with three ways:

One way would be to use something like #1, except you can drop ranks. But this just doesn't seem right. One game you can play A, B, and C. After beating them each you rise a rank and am able to play D, E, and F. But after losing to them you can play A, B, and C again, but not D, E, and F. It would probably be annoying to the players that constantly float between ranks. Yet the RR system used today, even if there were no hackers, is vulnerable to raisers. One guy with a 4000 point bot and a 4200 point bot can play himself and get his 4200 point bot to 8000 points, or more.

The next option is probably the best one. One multiplayer game I played had ranked and unranked. On ranked you would click "Find Match" and get a fight with a random player. For unranked there was a RR-style challenge system. You could click on someone's name from a list, and when clicking challenge a window would pop up. There you can change all the settings you want, and clicking challenge again sends the challenge.

The third way is the least bullet-proof of our options, but it leaves more flexibility in the ranking system. This option would be to have games watched by moderators to see who is trying to cheat. Luckily ban evasion and IP changing would fail, because a player would have to start over with a new bot.

Completely off topic, but that game I played also had a random mode. It set you up with random everything. The RR equivalent would give you random chassis, tower, and pretty much everything; even weapons. That might be worth a few laughs.

I'll work on percentages for the ranking in the morning. I'm going to bed.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Sun May 16, 2010 9:09 pm

This is all so confusing to me. And from what i hear its a totally different game altogether. I would much rather stick with it the way it is rather than all of this. And dont listen to HiTech. He comes and goes with the tides. Jork and I and Root are different. East and KK10 have vanished so i think another forum would be in order. One where someone is in control and can remover some of these stupid posts. Why make it so complicated. Im reserving a spot on club penquin just in case.
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 17, 2010 1:25 am

No worries Wolfy. Dalmat and I are just thinking up ideas. One day one of us might use them in a game, but most likely him.

OK, so, Skill Ranks and percentages. Let's say 25 skill ranks for now. You can be matched with anyone within 5 ranks, but not someone 6 ranks away from your rank.

Points won for winning = (15 + Their Rank - Your Rank) * (50 - Your Rank)
Points lost for losing = (15 + Your Rank - Their Rank) * (25 + Your Rank)

You're smart, but I should explain this anyways. The first factor is there so you win more points for beating a strong player, and lose more for losing to a weak player. The second factor is a bit confusing but necessary. The lower ranked you are, the more points you get for winning, and the less for losing, even against someone your own rank. Lets pretend a Rank 2 beats a Rank 1. The 2 wins 672 points, but the 1 loses only 364 points. But what if a 25 beats a 20. The 25 wins 500 points, but the 20 loses 900 points. This is here to make it easier for newbs to advance, while making 24 and 25 achieved by only the top players. This is important to the rating system. Say there is a player capable of beating Rank 25s 60% of the time and a player capable of beating Rank 25s 80% of the time. If the 60% player plays way more than the 80% player, the 60% will reach the highscores faster, without the second part of the rating system. The top players should actually be the best players.

The 15, 50, and 25 can be switched out. This is just a rough draft. Also, because the numbers get big, maybe both formulas could be divided by 10.


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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 17, 2010 3:12 am

You lost me at skill ranks. Lol. Gosh i wish i could win once in awhile. Robot Rage is hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 17, 2010 4:00 am

just read through it fast, and its pretty good, let me just point out one thing. wouldn\'t it be fair that winnings and losses would also be based on the number of points of an adversary? or would that bring too much targeting and running from battles?

edit:
you want to make a game too? tell me what you can do, I\'ll be honest, visual stuff like models and interface is the hardest for me. Well I can make it but its more a question of trial and error before something cool comes out. I can appreciate it once its done, but lack the imagination and visual prowess to imagine something and make it from my head. Probably because my visual memory and the ability to \"see\" something in my head is like non existing Smile
Hope its your talent Razz


Last edited by Dalmat on Mon May 17, 2010 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 17, 2010 4:03 am

That could work. I used skill rank to give you a general idea on what the calculations would look like. Might be harder to make a formula is its specific number of points, but I see nothing wrong with that. Running from battles once you see an opponent will be a forfeit.

EDIT: Well I used a completely different software, so its not like we could share programming. But yeah, I could try my hand at some visual stuff. Just name a size and details and I'll get to work on it. As for 3D, like weapons, I might know someone that could do that.

OTHER EDIT: I'm hoping that it would be random matchups. Just click "Find Match" and you get someone completely random. Someone COULD see whos online and know when they finish a battle, thus knowing when they likely click find match... But ah well, there will be a Beta period for this.




Last edited by RootRanger on Mon May 17, 2010 4:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dalmat! Is it him?!   Mon May 17, 2010 4:06 am

read the edit. since you have experience with the game, do you think it would make people reject too many battles, like elitists battling only the ones with best points? it would probably screw the idea of making only the best to the top. it would become "the most careful and patient in the top". or not?
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